Formal Request for Clan AG Unban

Posts: 241 Join date: 2009-08-31 Age: 27 Location: The OC

Now that I'm done with all the hero abilities in wol I have time to type this out.

I hereby request the ban for clan AG to be removed. We ARE NOT the same clan as the old one. Only 4 our members were ever part of the old AG and most left that clan anyway. I personally never cared at all for heart's clan since it was made just to troll people, as Heart is known to do. In fact, some of the founding members were former UFW members and most DID NOT bare any il will towards UFW in general (many do now because this ban was very unjustified).

This clan was formed for Daydream Breaker players by Daydream Breaker players. The clan tag just happened to become AG because it was the most popular of names people came up with. The name has heavy roots in the Touhou World seeing as Gensokyo IS the name of the world. Some of the other suggestions for the clan name were Border of Life, Shrine of Paradise, Bad Apple, Hakurei Jinja, WOL. But ultimately "Artificial Gensokyo" won out among the people.

Ultimately this clan does little more than punish your own clan members though. Most, if not all AG members do not play fate anymore nor do they care about the map. On the other hand there are UFW members who enjoy playing Daydream. Under your current ban, they would not be allowed to play most, if not all games because they are mainly hosted by AG members, and if they are not, then there would need to be AG members in order to fill up the game. Most of the Daydream regulars belong to clan AG because was made for Daydream. This ban should be lifted if not only for the reason it is punishing members of UFW for nothing more than liking to play Daydream.

Finally in regards to the "offensive" game names, Clan AG cannot and will not apologize for them. They are the actions of ONE person and not the clan as a whole. Said "offensive" game names have existed long before Clan UFW. Games used to be hosted under "NFF>FSNE", "FSNEFSN", and "FSN>NF" all the time but no one ever thought anything of it. The game name is nothing but the opinion of the person who is hosting the game. Even before the "offensive" "AG>UFW" game names, there were countless "NFF>UFW" games and NFF was never banned. We did ask him to stop hosting under that name but we are not about to control how he thinks. He is free to have his own opinions on things as is everyone else. If you do not like his opinions, then punish the person who did it and not the clan he belongs to.

In closing I hope you spend the time reading out this post and lift this senseless ban that has no winners and only losers. Clan AG will continue accepting anyone who enjoys wasting a bit of their lives playing a map they enjoy no matter what clan they may be in. I hope this ban will be lifted before an innocent UFW member gets punished just for playing a map he or she enjoys.

Posts: 241 Join date: 2009-08-31 Age: 27 Location: The OC

Also forgot to add

HITSUNOOB IS NOOB

Rank: Berserker (10) Posts: 773 Join date: 2009-08-11

Yden wrote:

"NFF>FSNE", "FSNE<NFF"

Aw what the, qq my FSNE D:

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:37 am

I was watching at AG people when they tend to create their new clan AG. You might say that AG is not same clan as clan AG before cuz its not "Always Goes", but from what i saw in creation of AG, and how they talk or making Gn, it just reminds me that clan AG actually created to oppose UFW nothing more than that.

When i went to AG channel when NEW clan AG formed, those guys told me to gtfo saying i am spy of ufw. wouldnt this mean anything?

If you seriously had to create clan that tends to replace old AG, you could have used different name. Im pretty sure many one of new AG Chieftain and Shammans were awared of what kind of consequences they would face when they have same TAG name.

If those agreesive AG members tend to change their attitude toward UFW (for instance, making game , GN AG > UFW can cause result even worse. NFF-UFW Relationship and UFW-AG relationship is completely different. NFF-UFW relationship is moderate, but AG-UFW relationship is just like "war" if you call it. Such simple action like making game name AG > UFW can cause problem even worse), next meeting that shamans and chieftain meet, I will personally ask kok to lower lift.

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:39 am

Before I even bother to reply "formally" on your request,

I'd like an explanation on the following things. It had better be good or I will just trash this topic:

1)Sakurai was notified (as I'm sure you know) to not create a new clan under the name of AG. Why was this ignored?

2)k3ng continuously attempts (even now) to steal members, coerce our clan and then offend us in every possible way. Have you taken any administrative actions against that and prevent/penalize him for doing so? If yes, what has been done?

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:10 am

l46kok wrote:

Before I even bother to reply "formally" on your request,

I'd like an explanation on the following things. It had better be good or I will just trash this topic:

1)Sakurai was notified (as I'm sure you know) to not create a new clan under the name of AG. Why was this ignored?

2)k3ng continuously attempts (even now) to steal members, coerce our clan and then offend us in every possible way. Have you taken any administrative actions against that and prevent/penalize him for doing so? If yes, what has been done?

@1) No I wasn't. You told that to keng, not me. And besides, the initials AG don't belong to you.

@2) I am unaware of these accusations. I don't mean to put your integrity to the test, but I require a little proof before I take action.

Posts: 241 Join date: 2009-08-31 Age: 27 Location: The OC

Launcelot wrote:

If those agreesive AG members tend to change their attitude toward UFW (for instance, making game , GN AG > UFW can cause result even worse. NFF-UFW Relationship and UFW-AG relationship is completely different. NFF-UFW relationship is moderate, but AG-UFW relationship is just like "war" if you call it. Such simple action like making game name AG > UFW can cause problem even worse), next meeting that shamans and chieftain meet, I will personally ask kok to lower lift.

Actually the same person who was hosting the "AG>UFW" games was the EXACT same person hosting "NFF>UFW". It's the actions of ONE person and not the action of a whole clan. Seeing as the "war" only exists in the minds of the ones who want it to exist, seeing as the driving force behind the old AG war has pretty much left battle.net for good, this "war" is pretty much people reading too much into things that aren't really there. There is no war here, I would not join a clan for the sole purpose of a misguided war.

l46kok wrote:

Before I even bother to reply "formally" on your request,

I'd like an explanation on the following things. It had better be good or I will just trash this topic:

1)Sakurai was notified (as I'm sure you know) to not create a new clan under the name of AG. Why was this ignored?

2)k3ng continuously attempts (even now) to steal members, coerce our clan and then offend us in every possible way. Have you taken any administrative actions against that and prevent/penalize him for doing so? If yes, what has been done?

Both of these are brand new to me. Nothing of the sort has ever been brought up to me. Looking through my logs (I'm pretty much in clan ag and nff 24/7), nothing of the sort showed up. If this were the case, and Sakurai did receive a notification, no was told when voting on the clan name.

As for the k3ng, I cannot say if it is true or not seeing in order to coerce your clan members, even now as you say, it would require him to be able to go into your channel which he should be banned from for having the AG tag, so it makes it hard for me to believe it's true. Also I could not see it having any real effect unless they were not FSN players which your clan is based on and only wol players who cannot play the map WITHOUT breaking either of these rules.

Quote:

1)Any Clan AG associates/members, including bots are NOT allowed in Clan UFW Channels/Games

2)Any Clan UFW members are not allowed to join games hosted by Clan AG or any game names that is considered "offensive" to UFW

I would say if they wanted to play the map but not fsn, they would have no other choice but to leave UFW and either join AG or stay clanless lest they want to be punished in the following manner.

Quote:

Any UFW members who does not adhere to the said rules above will be severely punished, including but not limited to: Rank Demotion, Timeban, Eviction from clan and/or Permanent Ban.

Because a good half of the wol players are in clan AG, and we tend to be the primary hosters of said map, it would be almost impossible for a UFW player to play under these rules without being punished for it. But I will look further into it and look through my log files to see if anything comes up, and if it does I'll decide on an action to take depending on how bad said action was.

Anyways because of these rule, I have not seen people like Niwa join a game of wol in days because of the rule and I assume, fear of being punished.

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:22 am

S.cloud wrote:

l46kok wrote:

Before I even bother to reply "formally" on your request,

I'd like an explanation on the following things. It had better be good or I will just trash this topic:

1)Sakurai was notified (as I'm sure you know) to not create a new clan under the name of AG. Why was this ignored?

2)k3ng continuously attempts (even now) to steal members, coerce our clan and then offend us in every possible way. Have you taken any administrative actions against that and prevent/penalize him for doing so? If yes, what has been done?

@1) No I wasn't. You told that to keng, not me. And besides, the initials AG don't belong to you.

@2) I am unaware of these accusations. I don't mean to put your integrity to the test, but I require a little proof before I take action.

1)I also told it to mumo, who I believe was the person that informed you. You ADMITTED yourself that you were notified of this warning. And I'm SURE you could've chosen a different initials than AG. I instructed you to take a different name due to confusion that could be caused within the clan.

2)Proof? I don't have any hard proof in front of me. I don't take screenshots of such petty attacks against my clan. If you consider witnesses a valid proof, let me know and I'll introduce you at least 3 different people who's been harassed by k3ng to join clan.

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:42 am

Yden wrote:

Launcelot wrote:

If those agreesive AG members tend to change their attitude toward UFW (for instance, making game , GN AG > UFW can cause result even worse. NFF-UFW Relationship and UFW-AG relationship is completely different. NFF-UFW relationship is moderate, but AG-UFW relationship is just like "war" if you call it. Such simple action like making game name AG > UFW can cause problem even worse), next meeting that shamans and chieftain meet, I will personally ask kok to lower lift.

Actually the same person who was hosting the "AG>UFW" games was the EXACT same person hosting "NFF>UFW". It's the actions of ONE person and not the action of a whole clan. Seeing as the "war" only exists in the minds of the ones who want it to exist, seeing as the driving force behind the old AG war has pretty much left battle.net for good, this "war" is pretty much people reading too much into things that aren't really there. There is no war here, I would not join a clan for the sole purpose of a misguided war.

l46kok wrote:

Before I even bother to reply "formally" on your request,

I'd like an explanation on the following things. It had better be good or I will just trash this topic:

1)Sakurai was notified (as I'm sure you know) to not create a new clan under the name of AG. Why was this ignored?

2)k3ng continuously attempts (even now) to steal members, coerce our clan and then offend us in every possible way. Have you taken any administrative actions against that and prevent/penalize him for doing so? If yes, what has been done?

Both of these are brand new to me. Nothing of the sort has ever been brought up to me. Looking through my logs (I'm pretty much in clan ag and nff 24/7), nothing of the sort showed up. If this were the case, and Sakurai did receive a notification, no was told when voting on the clan name.

As for the k3ng, I cannot say if it is true or not seeing in order to coerce your clan members, even now as you say, it would require him to be able to go into your channel which he should be banned from for having the AG tag, so it makes it hard for me to believe it's true. Also I could not see it having any real effect unless they were not FSN players which your clan is based on and only wol players who cannot play the map WITHOUT breaking either of these rules.

Quote:

1)Any Clan AG associates/members, including bots are NOT allowed in Clan UFW Channels/Games

2)Any Clan UFW members are not allowed to join games hosted by Clan AG or any game names that is considered "offensive" to UFW

I would say if they wanted to play the map but not fsn, they would have no other choice but to leave UFW and either join AG or stay clanless lest they want to be punished in the following manner.

Quote:

Any UFW members who does not adhere to the said rules above will be severely punished, including but not limited to: Rank Demotion, Timeban, Eviction from clan and/or Permanent Ban.

Because a good half of the wol players are in clan AG, and we tend to be the primary hosters of said map, it would be almost impossible for a UFW player to play under these rules without being punished for it. But I will look further into it and look through my log files to see if anything comes up, and if it does I'll decide on an action to take depending on how bad said action was.

Anyways because of these rule, I have not seen people like Niwa join a game of wol in days because of the rule and I assume, fear of being punished.

I'll first respond to the latest post, then answer your first post.

1)Refer to above. Sakurai ADMITTED himself that he was notified (although indirectly. I told mumo and I believe mumo told Sakurai, but the source of how he was notified is no importance. If he wanted to verify the validity, Sakurai could've just whispered me). Ultimately, Sakurai was the one who chose the clan name so he is (in my eyes) responsible for it.

2)As for the k3ng matter, it's not difficult at all trying to coerce our members. He could just make an alternative account and/or whisper people that he knows. I'm sure you also realize that the shitlist done from the bot is not universal.

You stated earlier that this ban that I'm imposing is doing no good to either clans but only harm. I find hard to believe this. Otherwise, you wouldn't waste your time trying to convince me to unban you. You state that you are a WOL centralized clan and this ban has no effect, but that is not true as many of our members also play WOL.

You state that this ban might do some harm to our clan. As with previous clan AG ban, this ban has caused so far ZERO damage. Even if it caused some damage, due to the scale of our clan, the damage is negligible. You can't possibly think that losing 1-2 or even 10 members (which I must stress, has not happened) will hurt the operation of an entire clan, especially when the clan is expanding continuously.

You say that this ban is unjustified and I can understand why many would think that (mostly within your clan). This ban is justified in perspective of Clan UFW due to Sakurai's omitted explanation of why he chose to make the clan name AG even though he was notified that he will be banned (and if he was afraid of this, he should've first come talk to me if he TRULY wanted to keep the clan name). I took it that he didn't care whether I banned the entire clan or not. I will also stress that one of your members was making ill comments about UFW, coerce and even make empty threats to me. But all of this is unimportant, even if this ban was truly unjustified, it matters not. If you are not aware, I ran and still run this clan like a dictator and I will make every administrative decisions within this clan.

You state that clan AG will not make any official apologies. I did not expect any and I probably was not going to overturn my decision even if there was an official apology. You think making game names like UFW < NFF or UFW < AG is harmless because such gamenames have existed previously. I must state that I was notified to take actions immediately regarding these game names from one of our members because he saw the gamename to be quite offensive. There's no telling how many more feels like that. I have given direct warning to the game host to not host the gamename as shown above. Of course, he ignored me in the end.

You state that one person's action should not be treated as an action made by the whole clan. I didn't and I never will. For example, it's senseless to ban a whole country from entering just because a person of that nationality have caused an unspeakable crime. However, that person should be punished for whatever crimes he/she have committed. I have banned the entire clan of AG partly because no actions have taken on this manner. This is almost as good as expressing that "What k3ng is doing right and he should not be punished for it". Therefore, I have put a heavy sanction against clan AG for such endeavor.

You state that this ban will only bring losers and not winners. I heartedly agree- UFW has practically nothing to gain from this, but also nothing to lose. Please recall HC's empty threats that she was making and look what happened. I sincerely do not care if UFW loses one or two or even ten members. We are accepting new members daily and the day of UFW3's creation is only a blink of an eye away. Not to mention we are the only fate-centralized clan in USEAST. Do you really think they will leave UFW to join AG, just to play WOL and to be banned from one of the largest clans in USEAST?

In closing, I do not have any intentions to unban as of now and probably will stay that way forever. You have not given a single rationale for me to unban. You tried to reason with me about how unfair this ban is and tried to indicate that it's only making me look stupid. It looks like you didn't fully understand my rationale about banning clan AG and only tried to look from the surface of events on what happened.

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:00 pm

What's with all the tl;dr posts, kok?

Anyways..

1) Yes, he chose the clan name which most of the clan members agreed to despite the initials it held. What do you have against the initials AG? We aren't the same clan that fail HC's was. I never joined AG and stayed in UFW because I did not like HC and I didn't care for her clan despite the numerous amount of times I was asked by Sakurai to join. This AG is different because it actually is interesting to me. As many of our NFF and UFW members have fallen to the touhou crave such as myself, we wanted to have a clan dedicated to our "wol" map. Most of us still keep our accounts in our old clans, so it isn't like we were "coerced" into going to AG and want to break off from NFF or UFW. We chose on our own accord and created new accounts so that we could also keep to our own clans. Another reason, which was for most UFW wol players, was because we were afraid that kok would punish us just for playing wol. How fucking ridiculous is that in the first place? You want to punish UFW members for playing wol because AG is pretty much the only clan that hosts it besides the occasional NFF host? Also, you honestly think UFW hosts a lot of wol? It is a FSN clan, so guess what map is going to be hosted for a majority of the time? Hmmmmm...... I don't know? Hungry hungry felhounds? To be terse, HC may be the reason for the original conflict with AG/UFW, but kok is the one to reborn this same conflict with the newer AG that has no connection to the original. The clan name was pure coincidence out of five other names we could have used, so stop using our clan initials to use us as punching bags for your own issues with someone who isn't even a part of it.

2) There has always been people that coerced members from other clans on battle.net to join their newly formed ones. Stop being so butthurt about it because it is NATURAL! And for the harm, wouldn't that make Yden right as you are basically telling us that UFW members will be hurt by this ban, which he has stated earlier? I could name a few UFW players that play wol, but as you said, "I don't take screenshots of such petty attacks against my clan." That goes for both AG and UFW. One last thing I wanted to bring up was that you said, "Please recall HC's empty threats that she was making and look what happened. I sincerely do not care if UFW loses one or two or even ten members." What is the point of you banning us then and bitching about Ryuu "coercing" members to AG then if you honestly don't care because the amount of wol players in UFW is small? If there were no legit reasons to unban out of the obvious reasons that were given in this thread, then you are one sad Korean.

Posts: 241 Join date: 2009-08-31 Age: 27 Location: The OC

l46kok wrote:

I'll first respond to the latest post, then answer your first post.

1)Refer to above. Sakurai ADMITTED himself that he was notified (although indirectly. I told mumo and I believe mumo told Sakurai, but the source of how he was notified is no importance. If he wanted to verify the validity, Sakurai could've just whispered me). Ultimately, Sakurai was the one who chose the clan name so he is (in my eyes) responsible for it.

Even if k3ng told Sakurai the rest of the members who were involved in the name choosing were not informed, and they were misled to think it was okay. ALSO the name was the most popular among the founding members

Quote:

You state that this ban might do some harm to our clan. As with previous clan AG ban, this ban has caused so far ZERO damage. Even if it caused some damage, due to the scale of our clan, the damage is negligible. You can't possibly think that losing 1-2 or even 10 members (which I must stress, has not happened) will hurt the operation of an entire clan, especially when the clan is expanding continuously.

You stated earlier that this ban that I'm imposing is doing no good to either clans but only harm. I find hard to believe this. Otherwise, you wouldn't waste your time trying to convince me to unban you. You state that you are a WOL centralized clan and this ban has no effect, but that is not true as many of our members also play WOL.

It has already happened, among the founding members of clan AG were in fact former UFW members. I doubt they would have any intention of using their clan UFW names again if it would mean they could not play a map they enjoy playing. Also it may be true your members play WOL, BUT they tend to play it WITH AG because we are primary hosts. Doing so they risk being punished under your new rule BUT they do it because they enjoy the map. A clan is NOT meant to be an operation as you state it. It's supposed to be a community of people who enjoy doing the same thing. In the case of clan rivalry, it should ONLY be in the competitive sense, to bring out the best in the players trying to uphold their clan name muck like a sporting event. It should not become a business or a status symbol. But unfortunately people forget above all people should be having fun with in a clan with the people they enjoy the company of. Maybe my views of clans are too idealistic, but in my years of gaming and guild/clan drama, I know in the end a clan/guild war will never end up benefiting the members who make up the community if stupid politics get in the way. The members want to be around so they can have fun, not be involved in a feud that they did not create nor do they have any true opinion of. Many times friends have to choose between friendships or following the will of a leader who does not like another because of a (sometimes very minor) disagreement with another.

Quote:

You state that clan AG will not make any official apologies. I did not expect any and I probably was not going to overturn my decision even if there was an official apology. You think making game names like UFW < NFF or UFW < AG is harmless because such gamenames have existed previously. I must state that I was notified to take actions immediately regarding these game names from one of our members because he saw the gamename to be quite offensive. There's no telling how many more feels like that. I have given direct warning to the game host to not host the gamename as shown above. Of course, he ignored me in the end.

Did the same person find the NFF>UFW gamenames offensive because they held the same meaning as the AG>UFW seeing it was hosted by the same person. I do not see you banning NFF and I assume it's just because people like Dun and Haru are still part of it.

Quote:

You state that one person's action should not be treated as an action made by the whole clan. I didn't and I never will. For example, it's senseless to ban a whole country from entering just because a person of that nationality have caused an unspeakable crime. However, that person should be punished for whatever crimes he/she have committed. I have banned the entire clan of AG partly because no actions have taken on this manner. This is almost as good as expressing that "What k3ng is doing right and he should not be punished for it". Therefore, I have put a heavy sanction against clan AG for such endeavor.

Our clan is NOT a dicatorship like yours. You CANNOT expect us to punish people in the same way you do. We DID ask him to stop those gamenames (he has no real obligation to your requests) and they WERE stopped soon after we asked him to. Because of his instant compliance to our request, no further action was persued on the matter.

Quote:

You state that this ban will only bring losers and not winners. I heartedly agree- UFW has practically nothing to gain from this, but also nothing to lose. Please recall HC's empty threats that she was making and look what happened. I sincerely do not care if UFW loses one or two or even ten members. We are accepting new members daily and the day of UFW3's creation is only a blink of an eye away. Not to mention we are the only fate-centralized clan in USEAST. Do you really think they will leave UFW to join AG, just to play WOL and to be banned from one of the largest clans in USEAST?

I have not heard ANY of HC's threats nor do I EVER want to read any of them. The second HC starts saying something, I tune out almost every she says from previous experience. NOTHING she says has benefited to me and anything she does say will most likely hurt the whole community more than it helps. She wanted to disband AG and take over chief of NFF in another attempt to show you up BUT I would not allow any of that to happen. And while you say UFW has nothing to lose, that is only half true. The clan as a whole will probably feel nothing, but the fact that it limits the options of a percentage (albeit a very small) to enjoy what's left of a game that may be coming to an end once SC2 hits.

Quote:

In closing, I do not have any intentions to unban as of now and probably will stay that way forever. You have not given a single rationale for me to unban. You tried to reason with me about how unfair this ban is and tried to indicate that it's only making me look stupid. It looks like you didn't fully understand my rationale about banning clan AG and only tried to look from the surface of events on what happened.

I have stated MANY rationale to unban. Most importantly the very fact you agree that there is nothing to gain from this ban. The fact of the matter is while you do no lose anything, a portion of your members do. This ban should be lifted because their is no direct gain to UFW but has a minor lost. AG as a whole DID NOT harbor any bad feelings towards UFW. The opinions of the few DO NOT reflect the opinions of the whole, even if the few is in a seat of power. Because there is nothing to gain from this ban there's is very little reason to keep it active. You should not let lingering bad experiences with Heart have any influence with new ban. Clan rivalry will ALWAYS exist. That's why clans exist. You should let the rivalry bring out the best out of your personality though. If the AG>UFW name is offensive to you, get UFW members who like wol and have a match. PROVE to us that it's not true. If you lose, allow the winners to have the bragging rights while and practice for a rematch. That way something productive comes out of the rivalry. Allow the players to play their best. Give them a reason to play their best. Nothing is gained out of a petty argument. There is much more to gain otherwise.

Posts: 246 Join date: 2009-11-21 Age: 15

hey, i tried to attempt to take your players? do you have any reasons? ask any of your members that i tried to take them. the only time i talk to them is either they need help in wol and i call them to play wol. why would you think i tried to steal your members? only person i recruited was littlerin(prinny)

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:54 pm

massive drama, tldr required.

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:59 pm

Our side:

Blah blah blah unjustified ban blah blah.

Your side:

Blah blah blah I know it's unjustified but i run this clan like a dictatorship blah.

Subject: Re: Formal Request for Clan AG Unban Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:16 pm

i have a large urge to type 'tldr' as well but i actually read it so i guess i'm to late for that.

it seems to me that basically both sides are to stubborn to see either sides problems and if they do, unwilling to devote themselves to fix it from their side.

everything comes from both sides, both good and bad things, that is live basically but it always takes at least two. ignoring someone leaves that persons attempts to do what ever, fail. acknowledge his mocking, and he will repeat. This is a part of live, and a part of humankind:

Peace is not mankind's nature.

» Im sorry for what i have done Zombies/Rylies unban request.
» Lorandia Sims3 Formal Dress
» unban me plz
» unban
» molim unban imate i sliku

Formal Request for Clan AG Unban

Formal Request for Clan AG Unban

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