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 item buffs/nerf o.o

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simodino

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PostSubject: item buffs/nerf o.o   Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:21 pm

We talked about heroes a lot but not a lot about the items of this game.
Imo the following items need a buff:
Item:Owl
Suggestion:Give to it a small true sight.
Item:Vampire potion
Suggestion:Reduce attack speed bonus from 100>50% and add a +30 dmg to hero and remove hp reduction cause since you use it for a meele hero means that you have already low hp so drain hp don't help them.
Item:A+ scroll
Suggestion:The armor buff shouldn't be dispelled by lancelot W or S scroll
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: item buffs/nerf o.o   Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:21 pm

simodino wrote:
We talked about heroes a lot but not a lot about the items of this game.
Imo the following items need a buff:
Item:Owl
Suggestion:Give to it a small true sight.
Item:Vampire potion
Suggestion:Reduce attack speed bonus from 100>50% and add a +30 dmg to hero and remove hp reduction cause since you use it for a meele hero means that you have already low hp so drain hp don't help them.
Item:A+ scroll
Suggestion:The armor buff shouldn't be dispelled by lancelot W or S scroll

Owl - Not going to happen, there's already a problem with TA and wards, there's no way this is going to ever be added.

Vamp pot - I'd agree with a lower health drain but not removal. Most of the times a single hit of melee will give you 10-20% of your health anyway if you're melee since I believe the drain happens before armor is reduced.
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josph

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PostSubject: Re: item buffs/nerf o.o   Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:48 am

like eternal said,
normal owl: you just can't give true sight to owl because anyone can buy them and that means that ta will have more problems than just wards which is already to much for him.
however, if we created invulnerable owl,we could allow them acquire true sight as it is a god-help item that is almost always ignored because of gay amp and stats especially since amp and full heal pots aren't getting soul-bound in regards to the following patch log.

Vamp potion: Vampire potion drains 5% of your Max Hp so the more tank your hero is, the more the penalty. so the lower your hp, the better. it's just that certain hero's are high hp by default and take a ridiculously penalty from using vamp pot if they don't melee hit someone within some seconds which can lead them to their death.

i took the average hp of the hero's but keep in mind, some hero's can go melee and generally put tend to put additional strength on top of their base
Servants that suffer from high penalty:
Beserker level 24: hp:2600 (around)
5% of 2600=130 hp loss per second ->keep in mind vamp potion lasts for 10 seconds
5% of 3500=175 hp loss per second
Dark Saber level 24: hp: 2350(around)
5% of 2350=117.5 hp loss per second
5% of 3264=163.3 hp loss per second
Lancelot during Arondight
5% of 3000=150 hp loss per second

as you can see, using vampire pot has great bonus to the melee spec's but.. it can kill you or at least put you to 1 hp which is as good as dead. the ironic part is, that if manage to do 3 or so melee hits, the hp drain is nothing and you tend to full heal with the majority of the melee heros. it's just certain heros like zl don't really suffer from hp drain because 1 melee hit is full heal and given his property as sin, he has "low" hp.

i would just set an hp drain to set number instead of a percent for vamp pot but i don't think it needs any change in effect besides maybe a nerf on life steal.

A+ scroll: if anything this is just a bug that is caused by ladder which you may or may not want to fix.
The 50 armor from A+ is just a buff so Rule Breaker/Gae Dearg/purge disable buffs therefore they disable A+ effect.

proof of disable of Gae Dearg/Rule Breaker: mediafire.com ?y9bg914fufaljnv
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simodino

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PostSubject: Re: item buffs/nerf o.o   Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:12 pm

Josph about the penality of vampire potion as you said more hp you have more is the penality but that isn't my point since i'm talking about meele heroes that have an avarage of 1850 hp.
The main problem of it is that since most of the kill move of this game have a stun most of heroes can't counter with meele and find a good moment to use meele is really hard for this games.
The hp drain give you a lot of problem on Zc dots/Nine/If you get hit by bloodfort/Rider Breaker gorgon/Enkidu;since this heroes have already low hp a penality seems too much since they can die easily even in late game by moves like double spear/caster and lancelot rb/ta zab/almost any jump.
You can say that they should just put a/b on but still especcialy if enemy team has rider/gilga/caster/zc they have really low chance to use meele and still even with A and/or B on be killed is kinda easy.
At this moment the only heroes that can be meele are fa/zl(cause combo),lancelot(eventhought hybrid is kinda a must) and ds if you want; for other heroes going tank/spells and spamming is way way better especcialy cause except for zl/lancelot 10-15 points in armor solve the problem if you get annoyed by it as i said in other topics while they spend 100-115 sp and saber 127 sp to have meele at full power.
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josph

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PostSubject: Re: item buffs/nerf o.o   Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:50 pm

it depends composition because you don't need to go melee every game just like you don't need to go spell every game. the thing with vampire potion is the fact that u have to take a chance to buff your melee to a remarkable level or fail completely and die because of using an item that is suppose to help you.

the part about skills and servants themselves countering melee is unfortunate but you can't really go change all the skills that screw up melee. you can try to buff or modify meele a bit but for some reason, people in Asia got low temper when they die to melee because it's like "omg rigged melee " "nerf please". it's to easy to complain about, for some reason.
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: item buffs/nerf o.o   Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:38 am

josph wrote:
it depends composition because you don't need to go melee every game just like you don't need to go spell every game. the thing with vampire potion is the fact that u have to take a chance to buff your melee to a remarkable level or fail completely and die because of using an item that is suppose to help you.

the part about skills and servants themselves countering melee is unfortunate but you can't really go change all the skills that screw up melee. you can try to buff or modify meele a bit but for some reason, people in Asia got low temper when they die to melee because it's like "omg rigged melee " "nerf please". it's to easy to complain about, for some reason.

I assume that fate was meant to be played as a mostly spell based in terms of gameplay with melee being secondary damage unless having a spell that increases melee, and usually then it's still a secondary damage output. (With exception of ZL, FA and Lancelot with 2 Combos and ultimate being melee spells.)

Problem with making melee able to equal spells is that melee is something you can always do and will always be ready as opposed to spells that take 40-60 seconds of recharge. Melee in fate is meant as damage that will happen over time not burst damage unless you get attributes/spells that increase melee to that degree, and even then it's not going to be as strong as using a spell that does 2000+ damage on someone.

Also if you want to compare stat usage for heroes it's like that for mostly every hero, some require only like 60 points of investment while others require nearly 100.
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