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 Deathmatch God Help

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EternalDevote
Fate/Another Official Tester
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Posts : 1162
Join date : 2010-04-04
Age : 25
Location : New Canada that's in the sky above old Canada

PostSubject: Deathmatch God Help   Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:33 pm

With True Assassin combo under going change, it'll be extremely difficult for True Assassin if anyone decides to buy the Invulnerable Wards. It is also a little overpowered that God Help has an item that can directly counter only a SINGLE servant.

An idea is to replace/remove the Invulnerable Wards from God Help in Death Match and change it a different one.

-------------------------------------
Improved A Scroll
--An item that reduces ALL damage taken by 60-75%, including Tsubame Gaeshi and etc.
10 second duration. Cannot be dispelled. Stack of 3-5.



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frankiethefly



Rank : Gilgamesh(2) Posts : 528
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PostSubject: Re: Deathmatch God Help   Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:41 pm

We are well aware about the strength and weaknesses of ta and are currently looking into this servant to find a way to improve its overall gameplay.

I personally do not think that the invulnerable wards specifically will present an issue, because they have been underused in the past, but ta overall needs a change to make it a more enjoyable character.

If you have any ideas or suggestions feel free to toss them in.
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aneq

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PostSubject: Re: Deathmatch God Help   Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:34 pm

simple enough, remove true sight from invul wards and buff afterwards to compensate. Increasing duration of those would be very competitive in arena, for death match you would need to make them persist through rounds. It would be fair because god help isn't really abundant, and its value rises high especially with the new changes to AMPs and Full Heal potions. Ideally all god help options should be equally appealing, but with AMP & Ful Heal nerf (I call it a nerf but this nerf made AMPs worth much more than before, its funny) other options must remain competitive. Raising skillpoint quantity could be one thing. The other thing could be the invul ward change idea i presented. That leaves gold, but gold is useful only in arena (still would need to raise the gold cap & godhelp gold quantity to match wards, amp and fullheal)
I must say Furtle, I'm bit impressed with the changes you're doing to make this map less boring. Keep at it and I might come back ;D
Oh and by the way, the invul ward change would solve the vision problem for charging team. By forcing the defenders to hide in the fog of war attackers gain more ground. Of course tp scroll would need to be incompatibile with invul wards, that would make the game silly.


Last edited by aneq on Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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josph

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PostSubject: Re: Deathmatch God Help   Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:46 pm

uh... i think A scroll is the wrong thing to improve. there's already A+ and tg was meant to be a move that is undodgable on all natures.



The problem with gold in dm is that gold is never really in demand, and due to the regulation of "If you are 5000 or above, you will not receive round gold income". so the logical thing to do is divde it into parts.(4 doses) giving each 4k when time in need.


and i don't think Invul wards need a change, it's WAY under used, in fact i believe that invul wards should be changed from stack to passive gain (1 per round) and the number cannot exceed one on the counter. this would probably be the godhelp chosen by jumpers (lancer/rider) as the duty of wards in dm are alway carried out by jumpers normally.

other possiblilitys is giving invul wards wall sight instead of true sight (after ta combo has changed)

if not, you can remove it. it's not like anyone gets those anyway. so i can't imagine anyone crying river over it.

my suggestion is a gold help that resets your 12 mantra seals or add 12
seals to the current exiting ones. it could be an item divided into
parts(like 2 seals per dose) as well or in 1. Useful if you run out of seals and are in need desperately.

Note: Numbers can change.
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Milky Holmes

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PostSubject: Re: Deathmatch God Help   Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:44 pm

frankiethefly wrote:
We are well aware about the strength and weaknesses of ta and are currently looking into this servant to find a way to improve its overall gameplay.

I personally do not think that the invulnerable wards specifically will present an issue, because they have been underused in the past, but ta overall needs a change to make it a more enjoyable character.

If you have any ideas or suggestions feel free to toss them in.

Well, I don't claim to be an expert on top-level korean play, so take this with a grain of salt, but my opinion is that the problem with TA at the moment is that he encourages camping, which is highly undesireable, we have enough of that already. On both sides even. The team without ta is forced to camp/stay near wards for much of the game, or at least much more than usual, and the team with ta is encouraged to camp because he can more easily take out the other team when they come into your warded area (where they will be forced to vacate their warded area). He's just not fun to play against.

I don't know how you would resolve this issue without removing TA's invisibility. That would require the character to be revamped to a large degree, so I'm not sure I can suggest any changes in particular.

Another thing I never got with TA was his W. Why does he have this skill? He hardly needs a heal, and the stat gain is incredibly luck-based. Just throwing that out there.
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josph

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PostSubject: Re: Deathmatch God Help   Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:13 pm

Milky Holmes wrote:


Well, I don't claim to be an expert on
top-level korean play, so take this with a grain of salt, but my opinion
is that the problem with TA at the moment is that he encourages
camping, which is highly undesireable, we have enough of that already.
On both sides even. The team without ta is forced to camp/stay near
wards for much of the game, or at least much more than usual, and the
team with ta is encouraged to camp because he can more easily take out
the other team when they come into your warded area (where they will be
forced to vacate their warded area). He's just not fun to play against.

I
don't know how you would resolve this issue without removing TA's
invisibility. That would require the character to be revamped to a large
degree, so I'm not sure I can suggest any changes in particular.

Another
thing I never got with TA was his W. Why does he have this skill? He
hardly needs a heal, and the stat gain is incredibly luck-based. Just
throwing that out there.

you seemed to have mentioned what kok mentioned earlier, where rushing has no advantage while camping has an advantage(mainly sight, better preparation).

It is as if TDM was center round a camping team with a rushing team(ta vs fa type game play), and the rushing team used to be superior then camping. This kind of counter balanced camping vs rushing but we kind of want to break away from a camp vs rush and change to a "anything goes" type thing where all strategy's and hero combinations are somewhat all viable. (this includes nerfing hero's that the game centered to much upon, namely berserker/caster/archer).

i am not sure, but i feel as if the assassin class used to decide what type of game play your team would generally approach (camp or rush). that's also why i think zero lancer kind of got downgraded from the sp cause he's like a well rounded middle men that doesn't favor either. this happen for the sabers as well in the "old sp".
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