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 Oddball Mode (Tentative)

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l46kok
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PostSubject: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:25 pm

http://l46kok.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-fateanother-mode-draft-oddball.html

I made a draft of a new mode for Real map.

Let me know what you guys think.


Last edited by l46kok on Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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josph

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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:28 pm

ta w heals him so the hp penality is meaningless,


but aside from your problems. u can just mass tp around the the "corner" sides of the odd ball such as park/port and instantly win just by doing that, let's say u gain 2 points per corner sides of bridge per second, u can probably stall 15 seconds per mass tp by teleporting from 1 corner to the next (5 max tps assuming it's 6vs6) so whoever gets odd ball and places bird wards on corner sides wins pretty much.
it's very much a running game or a peon game. longer you hold out, the better

then u have stuff like caster on dragon and saber on water holding odd ball, what you gonna do? hopefully spam enough aoe skills or instant lose.

i am sure there's more problems

but maybe the odd ball should spawn in different locations or rotate or be like "king of the hill" or in this case "king of the grail" where u have to stay in certain area to gain points
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frankiethefly



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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:09 pm

"For next Real version of the map, I plan to change the way territories are built so that the building cooldown is triggered base (like Dust Explosion). This should mitigate some issues with casters abusing their territories as ridiculously as they are now."

This just made my day. I have been sick of territorries ever since I started playing berserker.

I do not know if this oddball thing is a good idea, it does sound fun but a bit overcomplex to solve the initial problem of camp.

Why not simply place the ffa circle in the middle of the bridge and make it a secondary requirement for victory, as in if you have same numbers of ppl whoever controls the middle wins the round.

There is a problem with rushing distance of course which needs to be adressed.

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josph

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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:14 pm

the problem isn't wining or getting a tie, the problem is having an advantage as rusher which right now is absolutely 0. your only playing on a drawback and the main drawback is sight which are provided by wards.

2 ways to solve this

1) add an advantage to rush team(like ms bonus) or add something that making defending difficulty
2) create a mode-type within dm that forces rush
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l46kok
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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:43 pm

josph wrote:
ta w heals him so the hp penality is meaningless,


but aside from your problems. u can just mass tp around the the "corner" sides of the odd ball such as park/port and instantly win just by doing that, let's say u gain 2 points per corner sides of bridge per second, u can probably stall 15 seconds per mass tp by teleporting from 1 corner to the next (5 max tps assuming it's 6vs6) so whoever gets odd ball and places bird wards on corner sides wins pretty much.
it's very much a running game or a peon game. longer you hold out, the better

then u have stuff like caster on dragon and saber on water holding odd ball, what you gonna do? hopefully spam enough aoe skills or instant lose.

i am sure there's more problems

but maybe the odd ball should spawn in different locations or rotate or be like "king of the hill" or in this case "king of the grail" where u have to stay in certain area to gain points

TA W is no where near enough to compensate for, say 10% of Max HP deduction per second. Read what I wrote again.

Again, because of the fact that you are given an incentive to stay in the middle for winning and because of the penalty given for holding the ball for too long, it'd be stupid to just hide in the corner. Not only mass teleportation + warding to the corner costs you time and money, the incentive for doing that is almost to none. This is all adjustable via numerical ways (I.E: Give 20 points per sec for staying in mid but gain 1 point per sec for staying to the sides). Comment on the concept, not the numbers.

The penalty still applies while you are on dragon or water, so this point is irrelevant.

I thought about King of the Hill but that mechanism is not practically feasible for design and balance reasons.

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l46kok
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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:48 pm

frankiethefly wrote:
"For next Real version of the map, I plan to change the way territories are built so that the building cooldown is triggered base (like Dust Explosion). This should mitigate some issues with casters abusing their territories as ridiculously as they are now."

This just made my day. I have been sick of territorries ever since I started playing berserker.

I do not know if this oddball thing is a good idea, it does sound fun but a bit overcomplex to solve the initial problem of camp.

Why not simply place the ffa circle in the middle of the bridge and make it a secondary requirement for victory, as in if you have same numbers of ppl whoever controls the middle wins the round.

There is a problem with rushing distance of course which needs to be adressed.


What you speak of is a KOTH design I mentioned on above. This is a quick and dirty solution, only thing is balancing becomes a lot more problematic (Balancing a game for a stationary point of control over a variable moving target is a lot more difficult on many occasions).

This also introduces a camping problem, shifting the flow of the game to one side. In case of Oddball, the camping issue is mitigated by introducing a relatively large zone of control and penalizing for hoarding the ball.

This is not only to solve the problem of camping but to introduce a gamemode where I personally believe a majority of the players will enjoy, bringing the aspects of combat to the maximum.
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l46kok
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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:56 pm

josph wrote:
the problem isn't wining or getting a tie, the problem is having an advantage as rusher which right now is absolutely 0. your only playing on a drawback and the main drawback is sight which are provided by wards.

2 ways to solve this

1) add an advantage to rush team(like ms bonus) or add something that making defending difficulty
2) create a mode-type within dm that forces rush

Josph you really need to think for at least 30 minutes before clicking on that post button.

1)This is absolutely absurd as it creates an insane disparity of advantages specific to certain heroes. What is more important is that this doesn't fundamentally eliminate the issue of camping. Regardless of whether a team can attack faster or not, defending is always advantageous as long as they can maintain their position quickly enough. If what you are insinuating is hasten their movement speed to the degree where the attacking team can reach the enemy team within, say 5 seconds, this creates a whole myriad of balancing issues. This is also not systematically infeasible.

2)The oddball you see is exactly what you are speaking of. The concept is basically like Deathmatch (rounds reset after winning, switching spots). Only difference is the winning condition and reviving condition is different.

I've actually thought of introducing a Counter-Strike like design where one team would be the defenders (defending holy grail, let's say) and one team would be the attackers that has to destroy the holy grail. This is also I am considering about developing, but have not decided. (Deathmatch is a really delicate mode to touch in general because it's what majority of the players play and even if the changes are 100% justifiable, many people playing the mode might not necessarily accept it because of their reluctance to accept such changes. It needs to be approached more cautiously).

Hence, I am just going to create a new mode where players can start on the same ground.
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frankiethefly



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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:01 pm

Thats why I proposed it to be a secondary objective instead of a primary objective. As soon as one person is killed the value of koth drops drastically and the other parts of the battle field may be used.

I don't see the difference between koth and current deathmatch, as right now there is most of the time a stationary defense part involved near ward/camp points.
The difference is imho only that you can not afford to lose your position unless you kill an enemy while doing so.

What I personally find the least attractive in fate is chasing runners.


Last edited by frankiethefly on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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josph

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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:01 pm

not trying to comment on numbers but u can't go above say 5%, avenger mark hurts enough as it is right now, 10% is overkill, no hero can hold odd ball for longer then 10? seconds? at most? assuming the player doesn't get engaged?

i just think the idea is to complex to solve defender advantage vs offender no advantage

anyhow that's my take on it, i just feel as if this game mode won't solve the problem because at least one team will gain an advantage in some way.
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l46kok
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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:21 pm

josph wrote:
not trying to comment on numbers but u can't go above say 5%, avenger mark hurts enough as it is right now, 10% is overkill, no hero can hold odd ball for longer then 10? seconds? at most? assuming the player doesn't get engaged?

i just think the idea is to complex to solve defender advantage vs offender no advantage

anyhow that's my take on it, i just feel as if this game mode won't solve the problem because at least on team will gain an advantage in some way.

L2R seriously

Quote :
Starts from 0.5% per second to 10% per second.

The heroes are not punished heavily for holding the ball, but for hoarding the ball. In conjunction with the scoring system, this introduces an incentive to not run away from the center, because running away for safety so that you can earn 10 points at most would be senseless to give away compared to say being able to earn 100 points by risking to stay in middle.

Come back when you come up with some logical rebuttals instead of dumb ones -_-
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l46kok
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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:23 pm

frankiethefly wrote:
Thats why I proposed it to be a secondary objective instead of a primary objective. As soon as one person is killed the value of koth drops drastically and the other parts of the battle field may be used.

I don't see the difference between koth and current deathmatch, as right now there is most of the time a stationary defense part involved near ward/camp points.
The difference is imho only that you can not afford to lose your position unless you kill an enemy while doing so.

What I personally find the least attractive in fate is chasing runners.

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but what you are suggesting is a KOTH style of battle where one team controls a certain region/spot for a certain duration to win on top of the current DM gameplay.. correct?
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frankiethefly



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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:35 pm

I was being inaccurate. What I meant was normal tdm rules + gameplay but one region/point that once you control it you tie break.

So basically controlling the point only gives you a score for this round if the number of players left are equal.

I just thought about it, if you want that mobile, you can simply add that oddball which is carryable as tie breaker without much penalty or point adding hassle, but I wouldn't recommend it.
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macgrady

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PostSubject: Re: Oddball Mode (Tentative)   Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:31 pm

What about gold wise? Do you get gold like TDM whereby you gain 3000 gold every round and will not gain anymore gold until round is over other than killing heroes to obtain it?

Also another question will be where will they spawn in the beginning of the round? Since you've mentioned that "All players respawn 15 seconds after death (Regardless of level). They will be revived somewhere close to the bridge but randomly positioned." I presume the players will spawn nearby the bridge as well but randomly?

This mode IMO is actually a pretty good idea since both the defensive and the offensive side can actually put up a fight. Looking at it this way, it resembles a bit of CTF except that you have to protect the flag after capturing it.

This is just the gist of what I think at the moment. I'll think of more later and give better ideas =/
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