| | What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. | |
|
|
| Author | Message |
|---|
EternalDevote Fate/Another Official Tester

Posts: 1051 Join date: 2010-04-04 Age: 20 Location: New Canada that's in the sky above old Canada
 | Subject: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:37 am | |
| I sense overpowered, cover the whole world UBW and infinite copies of EA that automatically fire. http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/d2579708d50d7679ffe0ca96da3b71cc.jpg | Spoiler: | | |  |
_________________ Beyond the borderline of death shall lie salvation
Last edited by EternalDevote on Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
 | |
aneq

Rank: Avenger (12) Posts: 540 Join date: 2009-08-02 Age: 21 Location: Poland
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:14 am | |
| umm no. archer cannot be corrupted by holy grail. he isnt a heroic spirit but a counter-guardian. holy grail will either destroy him instantly or have absolutely no effect (im not sure which option is correct since beein ages since i read about it and simply dont remember) |
|
 | |
EternalDevote Fate/Another Official Tester

Posts: 1051 Join date: 2010-04-04 Age: 20 Location: New Canada that's in the sky above old Canada
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:40 am | |
| Saber technically wasn't a heroic spirit yet either, remember? She had yet to die in her life so she was not a true heroic spirit. Then there's Sakura.. She was corrupted by the holy grail and is not a servant or a heroic spirit. Seeing as Archer = Emiya and Emiya = Magi and Sakura = Magi, Archer technically can be corrupted like Sakura. There's also Kirei, but he wasn't directly corrupted by the holy grail, it poured in through him from being gilgamesh's master, since it said Gilgamesh was uncorruptable by the grail because he went insane or something and that it flowed into Kirei instead. Or you could bring in the fact that Avenger isn't a heroic spirit and is the reason for the corruption, so there's a lot of things that aren't as they are. To it having no effect on him, do you not remember the reason Archer actually disappeared in Heaven's Feel? He took a ton of damage from the blob thing exploding, meaning it came into contact with him, which caused him to be done for. Now Shirou yes got hit by it and lost his arm, but he is human and can't take high impact forces unlike a servant. Archer would have only taken damage and not lost anything, as it actually happened in the novel seeing as he protected Rin with his body, so one can only assume that the grails corruption started to effect him and did not instantly destroy him or have no effect on him. _________________ Beyond the borderline of death shall lie salvation
|
|
 | |
l46kok Fate Another Developer

Posts: 1534 Join date: 2009-08-01 Age: 23 Location: Laramie
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:55 pm | |
| |
|
 | |
EternalDevote Fate/Another Official Tester

Posts: 1051 Join date: 2010-04-04 Age: 20 Location: New Canada that's in the sky above old Canada
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:24 pm | |
| What a way to kill my post, but no it's not broken, just the forums is horrible at loading high data pictures UNLESS you've loaded the picture already at one point in time, then you can see it. I can see it because I had to see it to upload it. You however have not seen it and won't see it until you click on the link then come back. Here's the link to the 'broken' picture
http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/d2579708d50d7679ffe0ca96da3b71cc.jpg _________________ Beyond the borderline of death shall lie salvation
|
|
 | |
l46kok Fate Another Developer

Posts: 1534 Join date: 2009-08-01 Age: 23 Location: Laramie
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:53 pm | |
| | EternalDevote wrote: | What a way to kill my post, but no it's not broken, just the forums is horrible at loading high data pictures UNLESS you've loaded the picture already at one point in time, then you can see it. I can see it because I had to see it to upload it. You however have not seen it and won't see it until you click on the link then come back. Here's the link to the 'broken' picture
http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/d2579708d50d7679ffe0ca96da3b71cc.jpg |
403 Forbidden |
|
 | |
Hero999
Rank: Dark Saber (11) Posts: 233 Join date: 2009-08-03 Age: 17 Location: By My Computer!!!!
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:56 pm | |
| | l46kok wrote: | | 403 Forbidden |
|
|
 | |
EternalDevote Fate/Another Official Tester

Posts: 1051 Join date: 2010-04-04 Age: 20 Location: New Canada that's in the sky above old Canada
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:08 pm | |
| Holy god this is getting dumb If this one does not work just google Archer Alter then click the first link.
http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/675564/archer-archer_alter-aya_-pixiv73672-bow-caladbolg- _________________ Beyond the borderline of death shall lie salvation
|
|
 | |
josph

Rank: Lancer (5) Posts: 273 Join date: 2010-03-19 Age: 17 Location: Canada,Quebec,Montreal
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:13 pm | |
| aneq, is correct and wrong at the same time. archer is a couter-guardian if i remember which means that he has a meter of energy which is like 100 000 000 000 or something like that which is about the same amount that dark sakura got. since, in begin of grail war he didn't have his full energy, if he got holy grail his mana would just replenish and i doubt it will even fill up totally while on the other hand sakura only has limited amount of energy she can take and as result it became a overflow of dark energy which made her evil. the same thing happened to kirei and gilgamesh. anyhow i doubt that archer would become evil since he is couter-guardian of fate/stay night or that world making him a hero. i don't think couter-guardian can become correpted and having archer win the holy grail would be major rigged since he could maybe summon like billions of swords which if that doesn't hurt berserker then i have no idea what would besides enkidu. at that point since archer was never for close combat as mentioned by lancer, assassinating him would be a easy limitnation however 1vs1 would just be major overkill. i am not sure but i would guss holy grail isn't totally pure harmless energy and can potentually hurt someone. would it change his mind, i would doubt it but many things aren't what they seem i guss. |
|
 | |
EternalDevote Fate/Another Official Tester

Posts: 1051 Join date: 2010-04-04 Age: 20 Location: New Canada that's in the sky above old Canada
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:57 pm | |
| | josph wrote: | aneq, is correct and wrong at the same time. archer is a couter-guardian if i remember which means that he has a meter of energy which is like 100 000 000 000 or something like that which is about the same amount that dark sakura got. since, in begin of grail war he didn't have his full energy, if he got holy grail his mana would just replenish and i doubt it will even fill up totally while on the other hand sakura only has limited amount of energy she can take and as result it became a overflow of dark energy which made her evil. the same thing happened to kirei and gilgamesh. anyhow i doubt that archer would become evil since he is couter-guardian of fate/stay night or that world making him a hero. i don't think couter-guardian can become correpted and having archer win the holy grail would be major rigged since he could maybe summon like billions of swords which if that doesn't hurt berserker then i have no idea what would besides enkidu. at that point since archer was never for close combat as mentioned by lancer, assassinating him would be a easy limitnation however 1vs1 would just be major overkill. i am not sure but i would guss holy grail isn't totally pure harmless energy and can potentually hurt someone. would it change his mind, i would doubt it but many things aren't what they seem i guss. |
Archer didn't even want the holy grail, he was hoping to become the servent in the era of himself and kill shioru. The holy grail used to be good until they summoned Avenger and he died, but instead of being absorbed he manifested inside the grail. _________________ Beyond the borderline of death shall lie salvation
|
|
 | |
YHWH

Rank: Lancer (5) Posts: 747 Join date: 2010-05-18 Age: 26 Location: Brazil
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:07 pm | |
| Josph, you fail at lore -.-
1. Gilgamesh was not corrupted by the grail thanks to his superior willpower, rather, the contact changed his existential nature, which means he actually turned into real flesh, rather than a spirit.
2. All living beings have od, not mana.
3. Archer being a counter-guardian does not mean his prana meter is anywhere near Dark Sakura's, Dark Sakura's ammount of mana was no less no more thn the result of using the Thrd Sorcery together with the Servants' souls to create a perpetual motion engine.
4. It is stated that counter-guardians, as far as their raw attributes go, are weaker than most of the Heroic Spirits, the only reason Archer Emiya can keep up with the other servants is his very creation of imperfect, if powerful, Noble Phantasms.
5. The Holy Grail by itself is harmless, in fact, the only reason it winds corrupt is because Angra Mainyou's presence. Angra Mainyou (not he Persian God) was a human imbued by humanity with all the evils of zoroatrism (scapegoat)... Since everyone wishes him to be evil incarnate, the grail actively powers those wishes, which explains how Ataraxia's Avenger could actually be the creature of doom inside the grail.
Last edited by YHWH on Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
 | |
josph

Rank: Lancer (5) Posts: 273 Join date: 2010-03-19 Age: 17 Location: Canada,Quebec,Montreal
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:02 am | |
| That's wrong btw divine. They don't have prana nor mana, It something called od or something like that.
Prana is divided into two parts
Mana>energy around enviroment (correct me if i am wrong i am trying to remember) od>the energy inside you like for example i think shirou has 27 circuits holding barely 10 energy or something like that.
My point is archer would only absorb it like aneq said. It wouldn't change him
also, the way i remember it is
Archer>betray his ideals Shirou>overcoming his ideals
Explains on why he never wanted the grail I will stop here. |
|
 | |
YHWH

Rank: Lancer (5) Posts: 747 Join date: 2010-05-18 Age: 26 Location: Brazil
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:13 am | |
| Josph, you are actually correct about the prana part, so I went and fixed it at my post. Still, it felt more like Shirou dumped his ideals in favour of Sakura than just overcoming them. The only ending where Shirou actually pursues his ideals like a madman is Mind of Steel in Heaven's feel (he becomes Kiritsugu all over again). |
|
 | |
josph

Rank: Lancer (5) Posts: 273 Join date: 2010-03-19 Age: 17 Location: Canada,Quebec,Montreal
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:14 am | |
| thanks,i guss i did my readings o_o
that's wrong if you think that because you need read his unlimited blade works chant. it explains his ideals in small details.
i actually went and read on why they changed his unlimited blade works chant in the movie. turn out it wasn't changed at all instead translated to what his original meaning was. again it depends on which path/route you look at. most favor ubw over heaven feel however both are correct. just different things happen. it's just i think heaven feel path talks about the reasons of holy grail being corrupted and it's power towards people such as sakura and why this happen which is basicly fate/hollow with avenger.
i forgot to tell squally that the side chant in f/a translated is wrong btw.archer has separt translation in the movie over shirous. i will try find link or remember what the side one was later on.
i would go and keep on argue but it would be kind of stupid since archer never got alter immage of himself so it's pointless. only people wish his alter state but archer having alter state wouldn't make him stronger... maybe weaker since remember on ds lost many of skills like leadership during her form. i would guss the same for archer projections and memory would be more flad and his melee combat skills would be higher but archer is usually known to fight people at range with thousands of swords in ubw. |
|
 | |
YHWH

Rank: Lancer (5) Posts: 747 Join date: 2010-05-18 Age: 26 Location: Brazil
 | Subject: Re: What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:37 pm | |
| | Spoiler: | | | Josph, if you play the visual novel Tiger Dojo more or less explains what can happen to Shirou in each ending. - Heaven's Feel: abandon his ideals, after all he is willing to sacrifice many for one (Sakura). - UBW: it is stated that he is likely to become archer, but it is left open enough to be arguable. - Fate: I can not recall. - Bad ending (Mind of Steel): pursue his ideals like a zealot (extreme version even if compared to archer, Kirei goes as far as to call Shirou Kiritsugu all over again). |
|
|
 | |
| | What REALLY happened to Archer in Heaven's Feel. | |
|