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PROSEJUN

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PostSubject: question    Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:35 pm

Why gilgamesh's attribute of enuma is decreased to point 11 from point 19?

set up at least 16 for balance. It's probably good for me because I'm not supposed be a support gilga.
if that point isn't increase my enuma would beat them up
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:59 am

For what it does 11 seems perfectly fine, unlike saber's or others that increase damage.
Her Excali attribute isn't that high and gives 300, caliburn and air one is 19.
Then you got a bunch of other servants who get attributes that do a lot and don't cost much(Dark Saber)
Just doubling the effect of Enuma seems to fit 11 points just fine.
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simodino

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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:43 am

Imo 11 is too low i would made it cost like 13-15 cause you are talking about power up a 2600 spell and also triple the area of max enuma . Since we are making questions why saber Max Exca couldn't be only Avalon+ Exca instead to make an attribute to change it?
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PROSEJUN

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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:02 am

it's not fine that attribute of enuma point is 11 tho
3 ways enuma is really unblance skill with imba damage
then eternal mention that 13points with saber's attribute of excaliber is fine
but for me to pick saber's excaliber attribute is waste of points although it increas 300 damage of excaliber and change the max caliber way
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simodino

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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:05 pm

triple max enuma aoe is really rigged since you can't survive unless you have link or amp on so i agree with sejun should cost like 15 sp
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josph

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PostSubject: Re: question    Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:57 pm

well, i think creators lowered it due to people totally not even buying the attributes because they weren't worth while and the extra effect was really useless and still people don't give shit about it and rather go tank gilgamesh and forget about attribute and race to 50 str. also 11 points may seem huge from 19 but think about godhand. godhand=20 most expensive attribute in the game and yet its worth getting it because u guranted to win rounds with it almost all the time if u don't have a useless team. while enuma attribute won't really do much for wining a round except for fail ubws maxs...
take in consideration of the mode being placed in asia. is it alway dm or arena? and will enuma effect much? look at godhand doesn't do much in arena.
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macgrady

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PostSubject: Re: question    Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:40 am

josph wrote:
well, i think creators lowered it due to people totally not even buying the attributes because they weren't worth while and the extra effect was really useless and still people don't give shit about it and rather go tank gilgamesh and forget about attribute and race to 50 str. also 11 points may seem huge from 19 but think about godhand. godhand=20 most expensive attribute in the game and yet its worth getting it because u guranted to win rounds with it almost all the time if u don't have a useless team. while enuma attribute won't really do much for wining a round except for fail ubws JOSPHUBW maxs...
take in consideration of the mode being placed in asia. is it alway dm or arena? and will enuma effect much? look at godhand doesn't do much in arena.

Fixed one nice part for you josph ^^ And ea is a good attribute if you know how to utilize it. 50 str is good but after that you can always opt for ea attribute or for the golden rule attribute. :O
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: question    Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:43 am

Usually high attribute costs mean a game breaking/winning effect, however doubling the area of enuma hardly does that.
Most of the time Gilg isn't in the back lines to use this and will only use this after UBW. (Unless he's fail and/or your team cannot take advantage of Enkidu which is highly doubtful as mostly every character can abuse it, except for Avenger if he has gone Berg.)
Max Enuma however is good but take it at a point of view, it has a 3 minute cooldown (One use every 2 rounds), CAN be dodged and has the longest charge time in the game, let alone that you will hear Gates of Babylon no matter where you are on the map so you may have a clue as to when it's going to be used.
Then you turn over to something like full Int DS MMB, especially in games like arena you'll only see the giant boom and then be dead, not her casting Q E. (Also has nearly the biggest AoE in the game, does a ton of damage, and can hardly be noticed unless you actually have vision of her.)
There's also attributes like DS's orbs which give her like 1000 extra damage but only costs 15 attributes.

-----------------

Lol just noticed me and Sejun made an account here on the same day xD
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simodino

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PostSubject: Re: question    Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:05 pm

so you think that 13-15 sp for enuma attribute is an high cost ? i mean even sword rain attribute cost more and is kinda useless but max enuma can kill an entire team !
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: question    Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:05 am

Max Enuma sure can kill an entire team, usually on unsuspecting victims. How often do you not use link when UBW is finishing because you expect a max enuma? How often does a GOOD archer UBW his entire team for this to happen? And how many people actually die when there's a link connected to the team, let alone you still have the brief second before enuma actually hits to blink out of it.

The attribute itself does not kill the team, all it does is expand it's radius, for having that sole purpose of the attribute you have to think of the cost for what the attribute actually does, not what happens because of the attribute. What happens because of the attribute needs to be figured out by the map makers and changed to fit the point where it doesn't break the entire game and is not counter able. Make no mistake, what the attribute does and how it effects the game are similar and relative, but you can't base the cost of what happens when it's bought, that is where character balance and map maker skills come into play, but only that of what the attribute does to the skill(s).

In my opinion, you'd have better luck standing inside and trying to dodge Max Enuma than standing inside nuke, and if you think about it, almost every combo has the ability of killing nearly the entire team if the right circumstance presents itself.

Remember, just because a skill can kill you in one hit, doesn't mean that it will.
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simodino

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PostSubject: Re: question    Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:37 pm

We are talking about sp cost . Rain sword attri that cost more than enuma attri is kinda wrong for the effects i with that enuma attri costs like 14-15 cause expand a combo that does 40k dmg and increase the size of a spell that does 2600 dmg (still i don't get if you think that ds attri cost too low or not)
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YHWH

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PostSubject: Re: question    Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:01 pm

Sword Rain can be used as quick combo with Enkidu, a situation in which it is not very dodgeable... On the other hand, dodging enuma is VERY feasible most of the times, not to say that Sword Rain had its damage improved at the same time Enuma attt had its cost lowered.
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: question    Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:12 am

Over the course of an entire game, most gilgamesh's have more damage done with sword rain than Max Enuma.
And like I said before, just because it CAN kill you, doesn't mean that it will.

The way the attributes go attributes that cost from 8 to 10 are minor changes, 11 to 14 is a small to medium change, 15 to 17 is a major change, and anything above can break the game (godhand), the highest cost is Nine Lives, which can turn a 11-0 game into a 11-12 game easily. Then you have a Max Enuma, which can win you maybe one round, but then it's not able to be used for another 3 minutes and especially in DM where the timers are 3 minutes, this means you get to use it once every other round, so it is harder to turn a game around with just this.

But you still don't get the point, you have to consider the price for what the attribute ACTUALLY does, not what happens because of it.
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frankiethefly



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PostSubject: Re: question    Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:58 am

Meh, the changes have been a very strong buff for gilga. Currently only the manliest were able to play gilga as it is easy to get a score of 5 14 with him in a medium quality 6vs6 game even though your team is winning. Maybe they just wanted to improve his ability to be played as something else than just a pure chainbot.
I do not understand the change but I don't think that it will reveal itself to us as we currently don't have top quality games at all.
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: question    Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:01 am

Remember that there's more modes than just 1. Some changes may be to balance a FFA game as well, making gilg solo or even giving him the option in a team game of actually going Enuma early instead of just chains, and that being said, there's more to a character than which has the highest damage spells. The one with better options will beat the one with only one option.
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MatouSakura

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PostSubject: Re: question    Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Strongest early nuke with longest charge up time of 3.0 seconds. (also longest casting combo by 4.0 seconds)

Also the slowest ulti nuke by px range per second.

Cheap attribute is actually kinda nice since its (mostly) worthless even early game in DM, FFA, Team Arena.

Most of us aim Ea badly enough anyway. And by range definition, also one of the shorter ultis with no secondary effect.

Silent Ea is Silent, though.
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aneq

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PostSubject: Re: question    Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:21 pm

you cant cover whole ubw without attribute
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PROSEJUN

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PostSubject: meh   Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:34 pm

Did korean map maker set the 11 points of the enuma attribute?
if it wasn't, the english translator change himself. It might become problem with korean fsn
Actually the map's copyright is focused on korean maker isn't it?
If some idiot as me bring that imformation up to maker, they will talk about it strongly for sure.
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MatouSakura

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PostSubject: Re: question    Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:53 pm

Do it. I go look if attribute change applies to korean version.
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EternalDevote
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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:55 am

It's the same, squally had no plans of changing any part of the game nor did he get the permission to.
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aneq

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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:01 am

it was added in korean version.
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Laruku



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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:19 am

nub moderators move this topic to Fate discussion
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PROSEJUN

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PostSubject: i sucked   Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:02 am

http://cafe.naver.com/w3fate

-길가메쉬-

에아 강화 포인트 18->11


보구의 비 포인트 15->13, 기본 기술로 가지는 보구 투척과 엔키두를 통한 보구 투척이 중첩됨


수메르 힘 데미지 30x10-> 50x10 (참고로 다 물리 데미지입니다 수정이 안 됐더군요)


[출처] Fate / Another II Ver 1.3d (:::::::::: WELCOME TO Fate / Another :::::::::Smile |작성자 Porory



-Gilgamesh-
attributes of Ea need points 18>11

rain of swords points 15>13 , from this patch its damage include both with original skill gilga have

gate of babylon dagaed 30x10 > 50x10 (those are not magic damage
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YHWH

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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:44 pm

Moved due to thematic relevance. Team C's co-coach, Laruku, has generously offered to pay for all of the transport fees (999.999 pounds sterling and 99 pences + 20% for the necessary federal bribes to ignore several layers of burocracy). Please do pay it within the following 30 days or we will be forced to take the proper sum from your family's private proprierty. The value may be paid in lolis from Pedogaya's stash(es), he probably won't even notice the dent given the large abundance such goods in his vault(s).
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d3z
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PostSubject: Re: question    Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:07 pm

EternalDevote wrote:
It's the same, squally had no plans of changing any part of the game nor did he get the permission to.

Nor would I care if the makers refused to give me permission to do anything to their map. The translation certainly was not sanctioned by them.

Not sure why people would think the translation attempt is anything but a translation attempt.
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